Truth vs. Grace.

good point, But somethings are just better left unsaid therefore you dont have to lie......but it boils down to your inner self and the kind of person you are.....the truth can hurt but i think its better to be straight up honest!

so u choose truth above grace then. and suppose u just walked away without having said anything. the ugly person would assume that he was not even worth a response which would be even worse.

well he needs to change his thinking and take some self esteem classes!

right on! it's not ur job to build somebody's self confidence, but it's not nice to insult him in anyway, so if put a smile on ur face and tell him/her that ur not interested it's maybe the best way to close the deal. and u never know, that person might turn out to be a great friend material.

its not about him. its about you... how many people walk around telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth every single day? its just doesnt happen cuz people dont like to hurt others.. grace above truth.

agreed. but ur talkin about a stranger. I expect to be told the truth from my closest friends even if it doesn't suit me all the time...beside u've got to have a certain amount of healthy self criticism too, and I rather told the not too pretty truth to my close friends than leave them hanging....
as much as I like to say about muself that I'm a straight forward person, speaking in general u always need diplomacy for things around u to go smoothly or to make it easier ....

LOL! exactly im talking about a stranger. if its like my girl or my wife or my family im straight up honest.

good. someone examined my question carefully. :D

yeah, but your options arent either "grace", or "whole truth".

At least in the meaning you're assigning to the terms.

wot do u mean, haylie? u lost me there.

well lies arent necesarily graceful, and the truth can easily be graceful.

As for the whole truth... you're either lying or you arent. Being vague, or not answering the question is not a lie.

nup. truth over grace in my case. what the fk have i got to lose from it? if they're stupid enuff to come up to a complete stranger then expect to be shot down.

If a person would kill themselves over a complete and utter stranger telling them the truth, then that's one damn pathetic person.


I'd tell the truth.


What would be the point in lying? Then they would just have false hope and belief that they're attractive, which is pointless. I'd rather be shattered by the truth, than live a lie. :D


I think there are certain times in which you should lie though. But only when the lie is about something extremely personal which would un-necessarily hurt the person you are lying to if you told the truth. Don't know if you've read "Captain Corelli's Mandolin" but there's a perfect example in there. Basically an ex-soldier witnessed a woman's son die very very painfully and slowly. He goes to this soldier's mother and she asks him questions about her son's death. To prevent her from more un-necessary pain, he lies and tells her that her son died very quickly and pain free.


I think it extreme situations like that, grace is needed.


But i would not lie to someone's face if it wasn't as intense as that.


Very, very good topic richard :]

well thats good. at least u are considering the parameters.. :)

thanks..

I always consider the parameters :]


You're more than welcome! ^.^

yeah cuz u kinda have to when considering these things... i just used a broad example above anyways. if i was in a bad mood and feeling like an ass, i might have said something completly different to the guy.. but for the most part, the truth hurts, u know?

You don't have to. You could be an ignorant, oppinionated, narrow-minded, stupid twat :D lol


The truth hurts...but lies do too, so you can't win either way tbh!

sure u could be a twat... and sometimes, lies can save you from a world of hurt.

:)

But you're bound to find out sometime, making the hurt come crashing down on you altogether like a ton of bricks...rather than dispersed equally and at a reasonable amount throughout your pitiful and depressive life.


haha how optimstic and light of us :D

yeah but why do u have to lack grace? let someone else do it... :)

see my point? it does u zero good at that point to crush a person. and to be honest, the only thing u get out of it is the satisfaction of knowing u just fucked this guys whole day with your high and almighty "truth above all else mantra". and then take the ugly guy for example. when he Does find out, he will still look back on you as being a nice person, even tho u lied to his ass.

But if everyone had that attitude then it would never get done and we'd all be living huge, massive, stinking lies. I'm not a coward who leaves things for some-one else to pick up and deal with anyways. I'd rather fight my own battles and deal with my own problems. Passing them onto someone else gets you no-where.


Well i think he'd look back and think that i was a stinking liar and be pretty embarrassed for himself. And how is lying nice? :/


I don't take pleasure in upseting people or "fucking" their day up. But i'd feel much better knowing that i'd told the truth rather than lying. That's just the way i think about it...doesn't mean it's the right or wrong way to go about the situation. I, personally, would prefer to tell the truth, that's all...

well u know.. u say up and i say down.


personally, id be pretty upset if that guy got really pissed and pulled out a gun and blew ur face off too.. lol now we're getting into having grace in order to self-preserve of course. and that is not grace at all. but yes i see your point, of course. ;)

:] up is way better, obviously Richard :P ahaha


Well if he was that psychotic to pull a gun out on a random stranger in the first place...i don't think it'd make much difference no matter what i said lol.


:D la la laaaa

well the thing is considering these instances, i'd rather put myself in the shoes of the person being lied to, not the one making the lie. Now if my son had a slow painful death, i'd want to know it.

Censorship is one of the greatest banes of the world. Just like islam, and anti-abortion, and "environmental issues" and pretty much anything - it CAN be painted through rose coloured glasses. But it dont really mean s*i*.

I want people to be truthful with me. And what better way to make such expectations a reality than to practice what I preach?

Excellente richard! ermmm i dont know i think im one of those people that hates to judge but i have before....so i guess it all depends...mostly i will be graceful instead of truthful!

me too... besides, having grace is harder than being brutally honest.

s*i* it is...how are you doing today?

fucking tired. i leave my house at 7:00 and dont get home till nine these days.. grrrr. vacation is needed and soon.. hows it goin ur way?

well im fucked tooo....but working like a dog too!

:) least im not alone...

awwwwwwwwwwh cool....well thats good, i am sh*t....

thats not wat i meant really. i meant at least i am not the only one working away.


:)

yeah i sorta read it after posting im like ...you damn fucktard can even comprehend the answer that richard just gave you lol! damn im just sleepy and i wanna go out already!

lol :)

tehehehehehehehehehehe! i wanna go sleep now f**k i still got 2 more hours of being in a fucking office!

I agree with you, truth is important, but not all the time! :P

thank you.. :)

i would tell the truth... "what i think doesn't matter, what you think does!"

u have answered with a blatant lack of grace. cuz belive it or not, what people think about you does matter. self perception is based on exterior perception.

my self perception is NOT based on others' perceptions of me... of course I would PREFER people like me, but if they don't, I see it as their loss

I'm not the greatest, but I'm a fairly decent person from an unbiased standpoint... not only do I believe in being honest with others, but with myself

I DO however understand the "grace" issue, and there ARE occasions where that is better, such as Emma's example from Captain Corelli's Mandolin

hmm yeah she came up with a great example. hmm i think everyone has a certain sense of perception, but it somehow always is influenced by wat others think. like sh**, how did u know u were putting on ur make-up correctly as a teen if ur mother or ur buddies didnt tell you it was right?

I made my own decision based on how I looked in the mirror compared to what I considered to be attractive looking on other people... I have always done things a little differently from others and been totally comfortable with that... I'd rather be myself than a clone of everyone else

as a matter of fact, no matter WHAT I wore, how I did my hair, etc... my mom was constantly telling me that I should do it another way, but I still did my own thing, because I'm not trying to impress her or anyone else... just making myself comfortable and happy. If other people like it too then yay, if not, then no sweat off my brow

so ur saying u wear make-up for ur own pleasure and not others?

I wear makeup to make myself look good to myself... if I feel good about myself, I am in a better mood

although I really rarely wear makeup, and when I do it's generally not much

kind of like the fact that I keep my toe nails painted blood red ALL the time, ever since I was like 14... even though they're rarely seen by most other people... or the fact that I got a tattoo on the top of my foot, which is also rarely seen, but I got it to please MYSELF, not others... if other people like it too, it's just a bonus

i understand wat ur saying but there is no way that self perception is not affected by exterior perception.

I don't understand why you think that... in what way is my self perception affected by exterior perception if I've chosen not to let it be?

because im not sure if people will even admit to it.

admit to what? you mean tell me the truth of how they perceive me?

no. we are are twisting this subject too much. im saying that if everyone tells a beautiful woman she is ugly her whole life, she will belive it. her self perception will be "well im an ugly person" even tho she is a goddess.

only if she chooses to allow them to affect her perception in that way... if people told me I was beautiful or ugly every day of my life it wouldn't matter... because I have a realistic view of myself, not an emotional one... so I know I am mediocre... I know what my better aspects are and my worse aspects without having to be told

call it lack of grace if you like.. i call it honesty.. it wouldn't matter if the person is drop dead sexy or butt fuk ugly to me.. what they think of themselves is what counts and matters most.. because at the end of the day, the only one they are gonna face, is themselves..


as for self perception being based on exterior perception... LMAO wtf? did you get that outta a book or what? hahahahaha


and i do not care what others think about me, i care what I think about me :P .. perhaps that makes me sorta bitchy.. i donno .. i dont care :P i am who i am :P

no i didnt get it out of a book. its the truth. u care wat at least one person thinks about you. probably more than one. a lover. a husband. someone. and im not saying that self perception is based Entirely on exterior perception at all. so lets not get it twisted. but wat certain people think about you has a something to do with it. wether or not u wanna admit it is up to you. it is complelty arrogant for you to say that u do not care wat anybody thinks about you cuz its not true.

this is wat im trying to get u to see, but ur being stubborn about it.

lol i'm always stubborn.. and there was a time i cared about what others thought of me.. and all it brought me was a world of HURT and PAIN... so you could say i've been conditioned not to care.. thusssss I honestly DONT! .. but if it makes you feel better to think i do.. go right ahead.. no sweat off my brow.. lol

hmm. well lets just say that u have and be done with it stubborn sally.

lmao! .. you can say whatever you choose .. think whatever you choose, be whomever you choose.. dats sorta the point :P it dont make any difference to me :P

i do agree richard... BUT the effect exterior perception has on someone differs enormously from one person to the next. Statistically, you can say someone ugly who is told the truth will have low self esteem, but its not always the case. Just as many beautiful women who are told theyre beautiful their whole life still think theyre ugly.

When it somes down to it, its really your personal mindset that determines how you interpret and value others opinions. The fact that most people care a LOT about others' perceptions, doesnt change the deciding factor.

yeah.. very interesting about how u pointed out that exterior perception varies from person to person.. i think its basic human need to feel accepted. along with food clothing and shelter.

Well i dont.

I think its a basic human need to accept ourselves. The shortcut is merely to conform, or be endorsed.

lol! good point, man. course i dont agree totally but still a good point.. i do not belive in conforming at all.. its such a waste of time. and its stupid.

of course. i never said conforming is a good idea. But its the route many people take to gain approval. People should do the right thing because they want to, and they understand the importance of it. Not simply to avoid being unpleasantly conspicuous.

my sexy thing...

hey ya.. :) wotcha up to?

im looking at yours lol

lol... sneaky.

i hope you dont mind :P

not at all.. i encourage u too.

aww you dont have to.. yours is encouraging enough..
............... im shy now..

LOL.. cuz of the subject matter.

Grace does not include lying. True grace only makes the truth sound better and more appealing/less harsh.

ok so sugar-coating. its still not the exact or whole truth, which makes it a lie.

.. how is not being "the exact or whole truth" equate to a lie?

care to give an example?

that's part of the reason i keep my shades and headphones on
when i'm outdoors :P

honestly, i would try to talk myself out of the situation. it is better to be kind that honest at times, but i have a brutally honest tongue :S

haha i know ay, the main reason i always have my sunnies and jukebox in public is so i can easily ignore people. Or i do the whole *quizzical look* "pardon? pardon? huh?" thing in a french accent hahahahahaha

i just pass people like a full bus.
especially the jehovah's witnesses that still try to get your
attention by standing on both sides of the pavement and still hold out the pamphlets.
i just make sure and walk pas't em real fast with a stiff face.
Stil hafta keep my ears open cuz one time a policeman thought i was ignorning him :P