Monday,Oct 19 2009, 01:46:00 PMKaira at pains to defend KLB, NRO

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Kaira at pains to defend KLB, NRO Minister admits explanatory note not part of law in
Monday, October 19, 2009
Dr Shahid’s Meray Mutabiq programme

News Desk

RAWALPINDI: Admitting that the explanation annexed to the Kerry-Lugar Bill (KLB) is not part of the law, Federal Minister for Information and Broadcasting Qamar Zaman Kaira on Sunday said that heads of two committees had to file their interpretation and the US president had endorsed it.

Talking to Dr Shahid Masood in the ‘Meray Mutabiq’ programme of Geo News, the information minister said that they agreed with the interpretation and if they (the Americans) set aside that interpretation, Pakistan would not accept the assistance.

When asked if the explanation was not part of the law, why Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi stated as much? Kaira said the law was for the US and they (the Americans) had to face their courts and legislators and Pakistan would not challenge the law in the US.

When asked as to what emerged from the parliamentary discussion on the KLB because a huge majority of parliamentarians was opposed to the KLB but the foreign minister delivered a speech and the National Assembly session was prorogued, Kaira said it was not Pakistan’s bill that a ‘yes’ or ‘no’ was to be said in the Pakistani parliament. He said that for the first time in the history of Pakistan, they put the aid bill before parliament. He said it was not a loan but foreign assistance that did not need to be repaid. He said they wanted to also put the loans before parliament.

Responding to further questions about the discussion on the KLB in parliament and visit of the foreign minister to the US, the information minister said when the discussion on the bill opened in parliament, Qureshi was in the US and was summoned back. He said when Qureshi reached home, the central leaders of all political parties including the leader of the opposition had made their stance on the issue public and other leaders were still discussing the issue. He said that Qureshi held talks in the US and returned after annexation of the explanatory note with the KLB. He said that Qureshi concluded the debate in parliament.

When asked as to who summoned the foreign minister back and again sent him to the US, Kaira said the prime minister called him back when the debate started in parliament so that he could participate in the debate. He said that by then all central leaders of the political parties, armed forces and other institutions had made their stances public. He said when the US Senate adopted a bill, the US president had to sign it within 10 days otherwise it automatically became a law and after that the explanatory note could have not been signed.

About the assets of the late Benazir Bhutto and Asif Ali Zardari, Kaira said he had no figures. He said their assets were being investigated and it should be completed because it had already been delayed.

About investigation into the killing of Benazir Bhutto, Kaira said he had on the very first day stated that the UN agencies should be engaged in the murder of Benazir Bhutto so that if any foreign hand was involved that too could be in reach. He said that they wanted to avoid the allegation of falsely implicating anybody in the Benazir murder case.

Federal Information Minister Qamar Zaman Kaira defended the presentation of the National Reconciliation Ordinance (NRO) in parliament as per the decision of the Supreme Court.Kaira exchanged hot words with Editor Investigation daily The News, Ansar Abbasi and host Dr Shahid Masaud over repeating the word shame if parliament approves the controversial ordinance with a simple majority.

To a question of the host, Ansar Abbasi said parliament was the representative of the people of Pakistan, adding that if, at this critical stage of the NRO, parliament legislates for a vested interest, a special class or some special persons, which is against our Constitution, then what is the benefit of this parliament and what is the benefit of such democracy?

To another question, Abbasi said the people elected their representatives for serving their interests, as they were spending money of the taxpayers. However, he added, when they entered the parliament they legislate laws like NRO, which “in my opinion such a law is never enacted in the history of Pakistan.” He said if the parliament approves it, “I think it is a shame for Pakistan and it is shame for democracy.”

When Dr Shahid asked Kaira that Ansar Abbasi was saying that the discussion and approval of the NRO would be shame, the information minister said, “I respect every persons and am preaching that we should chose right words. Members of the Parliament are elected representatives of the people and the nation has not given the authority of using such words “shame” to Ansar Abbasi.” He said their electoral would decide whether or not their decision was right and such emotional talk should be avoided.

To a question about putting the MPs in difficult position by presenting the NRO in the Parliament, the minister said it was not difficult, adding that the ordinance was promulgated during the period of pervious parliament. “Some people are saying that we are legislating for some people. Many people have benefited from this. About our cases in which name of the president has been repeatedly stressed by saying that only his cases are being focussed. The president has faced these cases in various courts and remained in jail for eight or more years,” he said.

Kaira said despite using all resources by Nawaz Sharif and Musharraf’s governments, no case was proved against him. He said despite hiring of legal experts and world support nothing was proved, adding that even Mian Nawaz and Saifur Rehman had admitted their wrong doings by framing false cases. He said it was the history of past that “we were accusing each others”. He added, “I do not deny this, we have also done something with our rivals.”

Ansar Abbasi said democracy did not mean that we have handed the country over to you on contract for five years. “We Pakistanis have right to criticise in good faith”. He repeated that it would be a shame if the Parliament approves such legislation. He asked Kaira that if he was talking about ten years proceedings of the cases, then why they were not bringing their cases to courts, if they had trust on the courts. He said the rulers should be the custodians of the national exchequer and they had to pass through critical test. Instead of appearing before courts, “you want to go scot-free by bringing NRO like law,” he said.

Kaira told Abbasi that he again used wrong word and added, “I am sorry to say, I would also use wrong word and would say many wrong things.” Abbasi asked Kaira, “are you proud of passing eighth and 17th amendments”.

Kaira told Abbasi, “You are not the judge. You are not the judge of the nation. You have insulted the public representatives by announcing your decision.”Abbasi insisted that he was not insulting any one and he had the right to present his observation, adding that “obviously you are minister and could agitate like this.”

Kaira asked Abbasi to use proper words and he would talk calmly. However, Abbasi told him that he was angry.The minister said, “What do you say, when you say the parliament. Are you referring to that building?

Dr Shahid Masood said he was saying that if the parliament did this, then it would be a shame. Qamar Zaman Kaira said, “When we say that it would be a sham for parliament. I am member of the parliament and you and Abbasi are not the members of the parliament. Being the member of the parliament, I am saying that the nation has not given this right to you. You can give your view, but...”

Ansar Abbasi replied, “The people have voted you that after entering into Parliament you such like .... for God sake Mr Kaira”.Kaira said National Reconciliation Ordinance (NRO) has been tabled in parliament on Supreme Court of Pakistan’s advice. “Supreme court ordered the government to table all ordinances of Musharraf including the NRO and we are simply obeying the orders of SC in the parliament.”

He complained that if the government obeys the order of the Supreme Court then people object and if it did not obey even then the people object. “We have been vindicated in most of the cases on merit. Only two or three cases were pending against us, when the courts were hearing these cases.”

Ansar Abbasi said about 11-12 cases, related to President Zardari, were decided between February 5 to May 20 period and the law was lapsed at that time. He said, “If you trust the courts, then is it not injustice that why common people should go to jails.”

Earlier at the outset of the programme, host Dr Shahid said that Parliament is going to write history, as it is to debate National Reconciliation Ordinance (NRO).

He said this ordinance was issued by President Musharraf bringing to a naught his own efforts of years and billions of rupees spent on evidences collected and produced before local and foreign courts.

He said those who benefited from NRO have reached important high positions in the government but they could not give legal protection to this ordinance. He said NRO that helped them reach the power corridors could also become the reason for their ouster. He said they did not expect that they had to brought NRO to Parliament in such circumstances that it can be challenged even after its approval from Parliament.

He said the question is that whether the approval of NRO by Parliament would not result in weakening democracy, particularly when the court can examine this law as against the fundamental human right and whether it can wrap up cases without being adjudicated during a specific period. Whether it can be said that if a person committed a crime on Tuesday, he would be sinner and if he committed a crime on Wednesday, he would be innocent? Can the state that is responsible for protection of life and property of citizens withdraw cases of murder, kidnapping and dacoity?

Dr Shahid said the civilised society of 21st century is going to witness this phenomenon. The Parliament comprising champions of democracy is going to make a historic decision. It is interesting, he said, that NRO approval needs simple majority of those present in the House. Can the NRO approval not become a charge sheet against the system? he posed the question.

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